Uploaded images turning with more red saturation than the orginals.

Discussion in 'Technical Troubleshooting' started by Tonytee, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    In the Title: African Daisy, I posted an image that turned out oversaturated with red than the original. In Pentaxforums, the images are turning out almost completely out of focus while the original was quite sharp. Do I need to check my browser settings?

    Many thnx Johnsey for your assistance.

    Tonytee
     

  2. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    HI Tony, sounds like you have two concerns that you merged together in one question. Lets take those both separately.
    Regarding the african lily posted on the canon forums here, I saw that Craig mentioned it was rather red but I don't have the same issue. I see whites that are close to white, and yellows that look very bright yellow so I do not think your image is over saturated red.

    Color has a few things to consider:
    • What the image contains for a color profile embedded in it from the camera or image software, which is the basis for how color balanced.
    • You as the photographer edit your image on your computer, your computer monitor has its own profile and color balance. So when you edit it you base you final edit as you see it.
      • How the end result posted on a forum will not really be impacted by browser settings, however your monitors color balance will not necessarily match the other users color balance of their monitor. This is where it is a matter of who is seeing what color is the big question.
      • The way the image is presented has more to do with the color profile for the monitor and the operating system.
      • I should note that their may be minor variations in interpretation of the color profile between different image viewers and how they render an image, but do not worry about chasing settings to fix that.
    My question to you is are you seeing a significantly different output on the image yourself or was it Craig seeing it very red that caused concern after the fact? Some things to also think about is older screens can develop color balance problems over time, so if colors seem off it is likely that screen the issue. Also windows machines generally have a warmer tonal pallet than apple. Not usually a big issue but something consider. Usually my color struggle comes to printing, they are subtle issues that are not always obvious despite the monitor or operating system. I have used software to color balance my screen, and subtle variations in color reach prints because the printer also uses a color profile and converts from the color profile in the image.
     
  3. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    I'll make a separate post for image softness, although my answer is pretty short, I am not seeing any specific issue with softness to address, nor would it be a browser issue. There are reasons this may be something that could appear to be an issue.

    When you create an image you save it at a specific resolution, viewing it at more than 100% will show softness because of this.
    When you upload a very large image some upload method on some forums will resize the image down to something made for normal screen size viewing. So that resize may introduce slight edge softness possibly . That would not be a focus issue, focus is focus so it was either in focus or it was not. It is always best to save exported copies of images sized down for their specific purpose like online posting and then do some light unshapen mask on them, you will find very large images after resize sometimes loose a little edge definition. Handling this yourself you take control of the possibility of the forum or website resizing your image.
     
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  4. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    Hey Tony one other thought, sorry for multiple posts, but you originally when asking about the post mentioned the sharpness issue was a pentax forums issue, so i did glance at some recent images over there and did not notice any that stood out to me.
    I did notice you have posted canon 80d images over there recently and some recent Pentax k7 images here on the canon forums, not sure how intentional it was to cross post the opposite camera on the opposite forum.
     
  5. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    i went back and had a look at the image on this forum, to be the image looks generally over saturated evenly.
    i'm viewing it on a 2015 mac book pro through firefox with colour of the screen denoted as lcd color, i've never balanced it etc just as it came.

    i remember a while back tonytee had some issues with reds, is this the same thing?
    maybe if enough of us have a colour checker palette, would a selection of photos from different people be of interest?
    unfortunately i dont as yet have a checker palette
     
  6. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Hi johnsey, Many thanks for taking the time to be of assistance. I will start by saying that I went back and again checked the original and as best I can recall, there wasn't much post photo editing done on this image. Flowers at different stages have a tendency to change in many ways as they age and colors are no exceptions. Other than that, I do not know what else to offer other than I get to a point with an image and if I am pleased with it, it will get uploaded. Beyond that, I have no control over what happens during and even post transference. As far my mentioning the soft results after uploading into Pentaxforums, I was merely offering additional information in hopes of being more helpful with the issues I am having to contend with.

    Now, for something near and dear to all of our hearts. You brought up the issue of my uploading images here that were not taken with Canon gear. When I joined this forum, I recall searching for any indication or statement of fact that Canon gear was to be used exclusively and found none.
    If I am incorrect, I hope you will forgive my transgression and in the future I will use only Canon gear here. Please advise. Other forums that I joined clearly stated that all manufacturer brands are welcome since after all, it is all for the enjoyment of photography.

    Again, your assistance is greatly appreciated. :) Tony
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  7. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    Its all good Tony, we did have this question come up early on and there is no exact rule on the gear. I just wanted to verify as I found it interesting since you have gear for both brands.
     
  8. Paul F

    Paul F Member

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    Just to jump on Tony's wagon here, this has got me thinking a bit.
    When I got my replacement camera (80D) I was a little surprised to find that I almost never actually agree with the camera's built in meter setting. I know this meter is only meant to be a rough guide, but what ever I photograph, I almost always have to aim to be brighter than the setting the camera believes to be "bang on center", regardless of lenses or the light conditions at the time, or the image invariably looks under exposed? I now wonder if this is more to do with my computer monitor, than the actual pictures I am taking?
    Am I deliberately making my pictures too bright? Are they always over exposed here???? (I hardly ever post any pics, so I don't expect anyone to remember any of mine! :rolleyes:) If I ever do any editing at all, it is almost always only ever to brighten the pictures a little more. :oops:
    Some time ago another member edited one of my pics to "improve it." I was a little taken aback to see that my vibrant, orange butterfly was improved by turning it into a dull brown specimen. I was disappointed to say the least. I now wonder if my original image on here was also over saturated too? Was it just an orange blob for everyone else? :eek:
    If you only ever view your images on one monitor/screen, can you ever really be sure that these are the colours that everyone else is seeing? (Lets not go down the rabbit hole that we are all supposed to see colours differently anyway - lets just say we don't for now!)
    If we never share our images, it doesn't matter. If we post them elsewhere, it might?
     
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  9. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    Well, that can be a good thing.;)

    I have a Pentax K3, and I have -2/3 exposure compensation permanently set in the camera. I don't like what the camera "thinks" is the correct exposure. Is this something that you could do with your 80D? Dial in a little compensation that works for you, and see if that helps.

    Nope. I only use my laptop screen. But I was looking a bigger screen last time I was out at an IT store. It could be worth spending a few of your hard earned pounds on a new screen.

    Gary
     
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  10. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    I guess you could post a few images and ask for some constructive feedback. That would help narrow down a problem, if there is a problem, and resolve it.

    Gary
     
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  11. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    The only way to judge something like that is to post your images when you are pleased with the results. You will be able to discern by what others determine may be right or wrong with your images. If you are consistently receiving comments that your uploads are underexposed or overexposed, then you can take comfort in knowing that the culprit is not your skillset. Post some images here so we can see the proof in the pudding as it were. I have never had any problems with my Canon 80d's metering system. The only issue I have had with the camera is its inability to properly reproduce colors such as: Burgundy, Maroon and Wine, as they consistently turn out to a bright, fire engine red. After talking directly to Canon, they advised me that I need to purchase a Gray Card and go through the process necessary to produce true and accurate colors. I did do that, although I do not like to. Again, please upload something soon as I am interested. Many thnx. Cheers Mate.

    Tony
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  12. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    There are few other factors that could impact the final image.

    Did you shoot in RAW, or JPEG? Are you using a JPEG filter? What white balance are you using? What did you actually see with your eyes? What software are you using? What is pleasing as a final image to your eyes.

    Gary
     
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  13. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    Hi Paul, I can what you were saying about the butterfly, I went back and looked up the thread you refereed to. And you are right we all have personal preferences...and likely see things a bit differently even when looking at the same screen or print our own sight can have subtle variation.
    Now regarding the edit they did, brightness and exposure wise I believe that the edit was closer to reality, on yours the little light purple foliage had been pushed till it was turning white and there was little detail in the highlights there. Some images can have exposures where they have only a few stops of light variation but topically this is due to over or under exposure. So if you look at the image as black and white and compare it to a scale of 10 shades from black to white and the whole image is living in just 2 or 3 cells it will appear to a flat image with very minimal contrast. Usually a good rule here is to learn how to read the historgram to see if the image has both good highlight detail and shadow detail.
    As for color tone, that would be different than brightness or exposure, regarding the butterfly he did turn a less pleasing color, I do however wonder what he looked like that day to the eyes. The grass while looking like it was a bit over exposed also looked like it had a bit too much yellow in it, so the image did seem a bit warm over all, the edit could have over done that and went a bit to cool, and taken too much warmth out of the actual color of the butterfly, I would be interested to see the raw file and what editing it myself would look like in all honesty. What kind of light were you working with that day?
     
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  14. Paul F

    Paul F Member

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    Thanks for the comments gents.
    To try and answer both Gary and Johnsey, I always shoot in RAW, and the butterfly was taken on a bright, sunny summer afternoon. Far from classic photography conditions I know, but the images from the camera (on my monitor anyway) looked pretty true to life as they were, to me at least. Maybe it's new glasses that I need! :D
    I won't pretend to remember what metering mode I was using, but this is definitely one of my technical weak points, and I do tend to flit about a bit to see what might look right at the time. I can forget to change it in a panic. Maybe I was wildly off the mark on the day????
    I rarely ever bother editing except for cropping, but its not impossible that I may have tried to tweak the brightness, so it would have been done using the free Microsoft suit that came with the laptop. Certainly nothing approaching mildly technical. (I actually bought Affinity Photo at one point, after being recommended it by a friend, and have never used it once! Since swapping laptops I'm not sure I can even redownload it. :oops:) This side of photography has never been of any interest to me. Perhaps reading this thread, it should be?

    Thanks again.
    Paul.
     
  15. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Hello johnsey. Actually I am glad that you raised the issue as some members have made comments to me. I wonder if perhaps that may contribute to the low membership number here. Word does get around and there are millions of very talented and gifted photographers out there and I feel it would be a tragedy to lock them out. It may be the reason for the low amount of uploads on this site, being that many members do not have Canon gear. Just a thought. Another suggestion would be to make it a clear policy that other manufacturers' brands are welcome. Hope this finds you well. :) Tony
     
  16. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    My two cents worth on "other" brands.

    This is a Canon forum. I know that a lot of people own other brands, myself included. But I post using Canon gear, simple. Every now and then I will post with another brand, this is often when I can't show or explain something using Canon gear. I will also state this image is from brand "X". I think the odd picture here or there is ok. But not mainstream.

    Do I want to be answering questions from Olympus, Nikon, Sony, etc, users about there gear. No, no I don't. I have nothing against other brands, I just don't anything about those systems.

    I do think that there are reasons that this forum doesn't have a bigger uptake, but I don't think that not allowing other brands gear is part of that.

    If I have a question about Canon gear, this is the sort of place I would come too for help. If it becomes just a free for all, I think that it will become a messy unmanageable beast.

    Gary
     
  17. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Hello Gary, as usual your points are well taken. I unfortunately disagree that this is a Canon Forum. This Forum has absolutely no affiliation with Canon, Inc., (as stated in the disclaimer below), however it is a photography website that is allowed to use the name Canon. Should a shooter upload an image that is truly wonderful I cannot understand how or why anyone would be resentful in regards to what camera was used. That perspective totally escapes me as I truly appreciate every photographers' efforts to do the best he/she can. I believe the best policy would be to have it stated in the charter that all brands are welcome, and this is the truest way to prevent any heated and inflammatory exchanges. Regards, Tony :)
     
  18. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    And no, I am not a moderator. So this is just my opinion.

    I think that a forum is a community of like minded people that want to share ideas, viewpoints, and who have a similar experience when using equipment. If you do an internet search for Nikon forums, Pentax forums, etc, you will find that there are similar forums that lean to that brand of equipment. Yes, there are just out and out photography forums as well that don't worry abut what brand of equipment that you use. By all means, the odd other brand of gear from time to time is not a bad thing. But if it is going to be an out and out general photography forum, that is different. Each of these forums pretty well specialize in one brand. As an example, there are no Canon mount, Nikon bodies, or Sony accessories in the equipment reviews on the Pentax forum. If you want good user opinions and feed back on a Pentax item, go to Pentax forums.

    Is this a Canon forum? It is not run by Canon head office, that is true. But it is a forum that has been set up to lean towards Canon equipment. I look at it as a place to get ideas from others using Canon gear. It is nice to get peoples views on how they find Canon in the hand. I am pretty new to Canon gear, there still things I want to buy in time. I will not find that sort of information at Pentax forums, nor would I go asking Pentax forums to post a review on the new Canon RF 50mm 1.8. If I do a particular style of photography with Canon equipment, this is the type of place that you want to discuss it. Remember, a forum is also a place to discuss ideas. If you have a Canon issue, you are more likely to get a response here.

    I think, and nor have I said that other brands should not be allowed. As I have said it that I think that it should lean towards Canon equipment.

    Maybe the rules of the forum do need to be amended to how the people who run this forum and how the moderators want this forum to develop and progress.

    There is no reason for any discussion to come down to this level. Everyone should be able to view their opinion.

    Gary
     
  19. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    I believe I see where the possible confusion is. When I upload an image taken with my Pentax gear, I upload it only with the intention of sharing what I hope will be an enjoyable viewing experience for my fellow members. I would not expect myself, or anyone else to ask for technical assistance with any gear other than Canon. A good example is that during the lockdown here, I was relegated to viewing some ancient history, really old images taken with some really old Pentax gear and came upon some images I thought would be a nice gesture in sharing here on CanonForums, so I did. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, it is just photography, meant to be a lot of fun, educational and as you so aptly put it, sharing of ideas and information. It is a free Forum and anyone can feel comfortable in posting whatever they want, whenever they want with whatever gear they chose to use. johnsey himself stated that there are no rules limiting the use of equipment. All the best. Tony
     
  20. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    we do have a section for other camera brands, i've posted in there.
    what i get from the site/forum here is canon cameras and canon lenses / gear with other stuff used with / on canon cameras.
    included in that other brand lenses that are canon mountable by design or custom.
    i'm on a few face book sites that are canon related and some that are lens brand related, i don't have any other manufactures bodies so i don't tend to look for those sites.
     

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