Focus trouble with M3

Discussion in 'Beginner Questions' started by Chris Firth, Dec 20, 2020.

  1. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    I'm a very recent convert from Fuji to Canon and bought myself an EOS M3 with a couple of Canon lenses on a recommendation. Today was my first proper outing with the camera, it has been a bright sunny day and I took plenty of photos to try out my purchase. I have to say that I'm disappointed with the clarity of the pictures and wonder if anyone can give me any guidance. They appear to be slightly blurred and not at all as crisp as I was expecting. I can post examples if required. I was shooting on automatic and best quality jpg.
     

  2. John L

    John L Active Member

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    Chris - a couple of examples would be most helpful.
     
  3. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    There are a few but here are 3 that I think could be sharper. Having moved up from a bridge camera to a DSLR I was expecting much crisper images. IMG_4676 (Large).JPG
     
  4. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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  5. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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  6. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    what are the lenses you are using? also if you have the setting, f stop iso etc
     
  7. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    Any filters attached to the front of the lens by any chance?

    Gary
     
  8. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    i also shoot jpeg with canon m50, try changing the picture style to fine detail, i had been using auto / standard picture style as it hd less alterations in its setting but while doing some close ups i played with the picture styles and found fine detail to also work with wider lenses.
    i use the manual mode and switch between auto/manual iso where necessary.
    if you are using the 15-45 kit lens i find that better for nearer shots than wide landscape, i dont think it has th resolving power far off distance, however i'm not a landscaper so i'm not totally sure how much to expect from a wide angle lens for far off resolution (maybe GDN could answer that briefly while we on the subject)
    of the canon eos m stm kit lenses i have the 55-200 and 18-150 are much better in sharpness, but i'm predominantly working closer in with telephoto and macro.
    if you are happy shooting manual i can highly recommend the vintage fully manual takumar 55mm ƒ1.8, its cheap as chips on ebay etc at around £20 and the eos-m to M42 screw mount is around the same price or cheaper.
    moving into higher quality glass both native and non native does provide increased quality.
    if you want some good extension tubes for the eos-m the ones i use are Dorr, so good i have two sets :)
     
    Chris Firth likes this.
  9. John L

    John L Active Member

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    Thanks for posting the examples Chris.

    My first thought is that the day was against you, with a degree of haze, which does not help!

    Looking at the first image, you can readily make out fairly fine detail in the distant processing plant, but the immediate foreground does not look quite as sharp as one might expect. I have taken the liberty of downloading the image (I will delete it having looked at it) and I see that you were at 45mm on f6.3.

    If I recollect correctly, on auto the camera uses a moderately large area for determining focus and makes its own mind up about where that should be placed on the image. This can result in unpredictable focus points being selected.

    If you assume that the camera picks somewhere in the near to middle foreground (say 20 metres away) then DOF calculations suggest that, for the lens and shutter settings used, everything more than about 10m metres away should be in acceptable focus. This would seem to fit with the image.

    I would suggest coming off auto (perhaps to AV and setting ISO to Auto) and then setting the AF Method to 1-point AF and the AF Frame Size to Small (both settings on the red menu main tab, sub-tab 3). Then you (not the camera) can select the part of the image to be in focus and this will allow you to take some more shots and better assess whether things are as they should be or not.

    Hope this helps and good luck!
     
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  10. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    Wow, what great replies. Thanks everyone for taking the time to have a look and comment on my problem, I'll certainly take everything on board and try the things you've suggested. Thanks also for the suggestions as to what gear I should be looking for / using.

    Just to answer the questions I was asked.
    Pic 1
    Lens is a Canon EF-M 15-45mm zoom. f/6.3 1/640 sec. ISO-200
    Pic 2
    Lens is a Canon EF-M 15-45mm zoom. f/5.6 1/500sec. ISO-200
    Pic 3
    Lens is a Canon EF-M 15-45mm zoom. f/6.3 1/320sec. ISO-200
    The lens is fitted with a brand new skylight filter.
     
  11. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    Chris what was the other lens/es you picked up with the camera?
    also part of the learning process for me is learning the limitations of myself,camera and lenses in combination with each other, ie testing different ways of doing stuff, learning about techniques to hone in on getting better and better results.
    i myself have been doing this almost exactly a year, when i got the sigma 18-35 art which is a brilliant lens i first wasn't that impressed with it expecting much better images than i was getting but the faults were with me in lack of time with the lens and lack of understandings.
    now i can take great shots with it.
    with the 15-45 i find its good for closer up than far away stuff as mentioned before, putting it on a tripod may well increase the image but i haven't ever tested it for that, yet.

    Chris what types of photography do you like doing the most?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  12. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    It's a Canon EF-M 55-200mm zoom 1:4.5 - 6.3 IS STM
    Here's a shot with the bigger lens. f/6.3 1/1250, ISO-400

    I've been taking photographs for many years and started with a Pentax Spotmatic and developed my own black and white films. A few years back I bought a Fuji bridge camera with a huge zoom lens but I was never happy with the quality of the shots so, after chatting to a photographer at an exhibition, decided on the Canon M3.

    I always have my camera with me when out walking so take quite a few landscape shots but I like the wildlife and take quite a few photos of birds and anything else that crosses my path.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  13. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    the 55-200 was my walk around lens for when i didn't have anything planned, along with a set of m mount ext tubes, they fit neatly into a hand bag/ shoulder bag, i find the 55-200 a very nice lens for a kit lens.
    my latest purchase is the 18-150 canon m stm lens as the 55 was a bit tight when i only had the one lens but still wanted the reach.
    outside canon i have sigma and loawa lenses which are great quality for mid range price (around the £400-£700)

    looking at the image above from the 55-200 it does look below par from my exp wit the lens and M50,
    have you tried going to M mode and dialing in the same settings or better still slow the shutter speed down to 800 , you should be able to hh that easily, my camera maths is rubbish so i'm not sure what 1so that will drop you down to, the lower the better i find, btw are you using a tripod?
    when i focus on further away stuff i like to use the magnify to lock in a decent sharpness, this might help too.
    i see the m3 has a digic 6 where as the m50 has a digic 8 so i don't know if that makes a difference.
    i've only been into photography as a proper hobby rather that point and shoot since i had my m50, i have learnt alot and know i still have a ton more to learn one of the biggest improvements was learning the histogram and having it on the evf, this may be something you are already accomplished with but i mention it to future readers.
    though the M50 handles iso upto 3200-6400 ok in the right situations you can get a decent and usable image i try to stay between 100 -800 for daytime / artificially lit shots preferring 400 or lower, esp with the kit lenses.
     
  14. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    I like what you say about the 18-150 lens as I've found I could do with something in between the 2 lenses I have. I normally prefer to use either the TV or AV modes depending on what I'm shooting, probably the AV mode as I like to keep an eye on depth of field. I don't normally use a tripod as I'm out walking and it's a bit cumbersome, but if I know I'm going to be shooting something special then I'll take it with me. I do use the histogram, but sometimes when shooting wildlife you don't have the time to study it, you just take as many shots as possible and hope for the best. When I started taking photographs using film (the old days) about 400 ISO was as fast as you could get so having the option of faster speeds is a bonus, although sadly at the cost of quality sometimes.

    Thanks again for your comments, I'm always open to suggestions and comments and will keep practicing until I get to where I want to be.
     
  15. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    Any chance of removing the skylight filter and going for a wonder and doing some more shooting?

    Gary
     
  16. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    Hi Chris,

    Welcome to the forums and canon cameras in general from what it sounds: ., The canon m3 kit you have is certainly a step up from a bridge camera. It is pretty on par with picking up a Rebel Dslr. Looking at your photos I do not see anything to suggest the camera is not capable of crisp sharp photos. The camera is locking in and focusing on areas creating sharp spots in the image, it may not be what part of the image you were planing to get sharp however. Using a 5.6 f-stop your looking at a narrow depth of field, which is only made more obvious by the fact that these shots have hundreds of feet of depth to them. F22 would have helped here, along with more deliberate focus.

    Your profile for shooting jpg will have some sharpening, this is likely a conservative amount which can be turned up. But to be honest I have been shooting raw since 2004 so other will be able to tell you better how to tweak a camera like the m3 for using the automated profiles. As a raw shooter I am used to having to fine tune the image with processing. Digital images will processed either by the camera (jpg) or by the photographer in post production (raw).

    I see Gary asked about removing the skylight filter, that may help depending on how nice of a filter it was. My uv haze filter is a modest priced tiffen one that I use occasionally, it ever so slightly will soften images using it, nothing you cant reclaim within with Photoshop. I don't have to worry about that as much with my more expensive B+W CPL filter, you get what you pay for so to speak.
     
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  17. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

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    I had to have a rummage around on the net to see what the 14-45 is like, and it seems to be a good little performer. Having looked at the images, yes, I think that they could be a little sharper, or is it that they are a little flat? You can see detail in distant subjects.

    The only wide angle lens that I have used is a Sigma 18-35. Of course we are looking at an asp-c lens, but I was using it on another system. But using that lens I would have been able to pick up more detail. It is sharper than a sharp thing. But I shoot RAW so I do my own sharpening to taste. I don't think expecting a little more out of a wide angle lens is to much to ask. There are other things that you need to take into consideration. Lighting, haze, the actual subject come to mind.

    Can I suggest taking off your shoes and doing some bare feet photography???? ;)

    But things that are coming to mind with these images are were is the focus point? Are you using a large area focus box, or a small focus box? Can you remove the filter on the front of the lens and give that a go? Instead of using f5.6 and f6.3, are you able to shoot at f8?

    Just things to try.

    Let us know how you get on Chris.

    Gary
     
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  18. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    I've just typed a long reply and when I tried to post it I got a security error and it all got deleted, Grrr.
    Many thanks for all of your replies again. The weather is terrible here in north east England at the moment but as soon as it improves I'll have another wander out and see how I get on.
    I've already changed to single point focus, I'll remove the filter and move away from auto to give me more control over f stops and depth of field. I might also try shooting in RAW so I can compare the results.
    Thanks again for your help, as soon as I have something new I'll post it.
     
  19. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

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    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    shooting in raw is probably the better option for you, i stick to jpes so i can run more frames if i need to with wildlife, and i cant be arsed to sod about editing stuff.
    maybe you could have a standardized test for your lenses like a can of coke down the end of the garden so you can hone in on what setting work best for you.
    as for lens reviews my goto channel is Christopher frost photography on youtube
     
  20. Chris Firth

    Chris Firth New Member

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    Yes, I agree, I need to set up a test shot so I can compare settings etc.
    I must admit I was sticking to JPG as I only have 2 x 32GB memory cards at the moment and I know that RAW tends to eat that up quite quickly. I'll have a play about and see what works best, I just need some better weather so I can get out there.
    Thanks for the tip on Christopher Frost, I'll have a look.
     

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