When reviewing an image, initially there is no color and no brightness. Canon 80D.

Discussion in 'Technical Troubleshooting' started by Tonytee, Jun 14, 2023.

  1. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Telephoto Lens.
    Thumbnail, your points are well taken. I tend to believe that since both lenses are stored in the same room, temperature controlled because
    I truly detest having to contend with haze, fungus and whatever else finds its way into gear. My question still stands and no matter how much moisture, condensation is accumulated, (but enough to create the problem you so aptly described, wouldn't that cause the image to
    turn out soft and flat? Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate your efforts to help resolve this head scratcher of a problem. :))

    Cheers Mate,

    Tony
     

  2. Thumbnail

    Thumbnail Active Member Site Supporter

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    In answer to your question Tony; if a lens element, or combination of elements, steam up entirely then yes, the whole image would be soft and flat but I don't think this is happening. For example, when my specs steam up, for whatever reason, it starts at the edges near the frame and creeps inwards, a similar thing happens with my kitchen windows if I forget to turn the extractor fan on. I don't know what causes this but I'm sure physics will have an answer.
    I believe we have exhausted these theories for now Tony but hopefully some further investigations on your part will shed shed further (unobstructed) light on the problem.

    Go0d luck.
     
  3. Ray-UK

    Ray-UK Member Site Supporter

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    I repeat THIS IS NOT CAUSED BY THE LENS.
    After taking the image it is in the cameras internal memory and the lens has finished its part in the process, if the image changes as you are viewing it on the LCD after the shutter has been actuated then it is a fault in the camera body.
     
  4. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    I am having to lean into a similar view as Ray here. The images he posted that showed faint on both cameras look fine above so if it is not the file it is not the lens. This has to be a "viewing problem". However I find it hard to believe two cameras are intermittently showing faint images, and.....newer cameras should display pretty well the information.

    With your images:
    The later images are a hair underexposed and show a darker background or flatter background than the first images.
    Did you shoot everything on both cameras as jpg? They would have to be the same format to be a good comparison.

    I suspect the darker background on either camera are just showing as even darker on the display, and the LCD doesn't always do well if not viewed straight on, or viewed out in the sunlight. This was so bad on earlier cameras I had a fold-able hood on my 20d.

    Tony, Is it at all possible to show an example of one of these images displaying poorly on the camera itself? Maybe a mobile phone upload snapped of the back of the camera. I do feel if the images are coming out fine that its not worth sending gear in. It is maybe an option to get a different lens long term if focus is soft, since these are consumer grade lenses repairs will = replacement cost.
     
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  5. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Telephoto Lens.
    I am having to lean into a similar view as Ray here. The images he posted that showed faint on both cameras look fine above so if it is not the file it is not the lens. This has to be a "viewing problem". However I find it hard to believe two cameras are intermittently showing faint images, and.....newer cameras should display pretty well the information.

    Johnsey, if what you are theorizing is true, then why were there no problems (viewing or otherwise) when I went to a different, albeit, Canon lens? The Canon EF-S 18~135mm, IS, STM Lens may not be a professional grade lens, however there are many professionals who do use it because it is one of the best as far as IS, STM is concerned. It is heavier with a much better quality build than the Canon EF-S 55~250mm, IS, STM lens. Thanks again, Tony.
     
  6. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    Here is the thing and the point that ray was making, The senor captures image through the lens, it is recorded as a file. The camera will then read the file and display it on the back of the camera.

    If the image on the back is very faint, but the image is not it is a failure after image recording and is a display issue. I have a hard time faulting the lens especially now that multiple lenses and bodies have been talked about. When this started it was just the 55-250 on the 80D now its mutiple lenses and bodies.


    Furthermore I have not got any clarification on what the files in the camera are, all the same format? JPG vs RAW? What I could see is the camera having an issue displaying when you shoot raw but not JPG, etc and the image has very dark or bright shadows/highlights.
    Tonal range may be an issue, who knows, i question why both cameras would have the same problem however, unless what i see as normal is what you see as very dark....:confused:

    I also have no idea how much processing is done, the examples show what should display fine on the back of the camera. They don't appear to have any major issues with the lens or sensor.

    I could see Thumbnails initial question about the lens itself, but if the examples you showed are indeed dark on camera, then the lens is not the fault if its producing a good image.

    Side note on the professional, most professionals I would say probably use the 24-70 or 24-105 depending on their primary usage if they have a zoom in that range. USM is favored and if you are making a living off the lens most professionals use the weather sealed L lens at 1k over a 500 lens they will wear out in a year or so. But lens preference and even the term Professional are all very subjective so its all opinion based. STMs are generally best for videographers on a budget but still worried about noise.
     
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  7. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Johnsey, I clearly indicated from the beginning that the images I was about to upload, were all JPEG. I also indicated that there was no
    Post Editing work, only Straight Out of Camera. Alright, getting back to the main issue. As you stated now there are multiple lenses
    and more than one Canon body. The two identical twin 55~250mm, IS, STM lenses ( I believe cause the problem) and here is why.
    I used both the 18~135mm, IS, STM lens and the 18~55mm, IS, STM lens taking approximately 200 captures each with a total of 400
    snaps, and did not experience any problems. NONE! I should mention that these 400 snaps were all taken with nearly identical conditions, being; High temperatures with very harsh sunlight and, in addition, the very same flowers and houses, trees, etc., etc..

    When viewing what I myself was experiencing, I had to ask: "Well Tony, how much more proof do you need?" As far as viewing goes,
    I stood there, screen in front of my eyes (no angle) just directly in front and saw what transpired on both cameras. In addition, in defense
    of myself, I am not a Mechanical Engineer, Electrical Engineer, Optical Engineer or Software Engineer. I am not as well grounded as you
    very talented and gifted individuals, so all I can do is report to you in Layman's terms exactly what I am experiencing through direct, hands on work. Also, keep in mind that everything I shared here, I also shared with Canon's Tech Support and even they had no idea
    what was going on. All they could advise me to do was to reset the bodies to Factory Settings and see what happens.
    My way of thinking is if there was anything misfiring or malfunctioning within the bodies, it certainly would have manifested itself within
    400 hundred shutter actuations. Again, a great many thanks for all of the comprehensive, informative ideas, suggestions and helpful hints.

    All the best and stay safe,

    Tony :)
     
  8. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

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    Yeah i saw this,
    If someone shoots raw regularly but was testing this, you would also be able to say i will upload some unedited images shot in jpg. I was pretty sure they were all shot in jpg but was asking a few times so that i could confirm.
    upload_2023-6-30_20-21-22.png

    In any event, i think we have confirmed its not a n issue that effect the image, so it seems to be most likely a fault on the screen, i dont see how subject matter can be any sort of an issue because the camera has no way to interpret the subject matter other than exposure reading.

    I speculated that of your flowers, maybe unlike many other subjects, in that they tend to be bright and in the center and can have some noticeably darker/ shadow area around the edges, Where other images may be more uniform in the lighting but all this is speculation why the screen could be showing signs of failing if it somehow was anything other than random.

    My guess, it gets hot after shooting a while, or if the screen is in use for a while it either gets worse or improves....those would be more likely patterns to the failure.
    ,
     
  9. Tonytee

    Tonytee Well-Known Member Site Supporter

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    Telephoto Lens.
    Greetings. My how time flies. Been nearly a year since the last post in this thread. I did discover something that may be of interest to all
    of us. There are times when I like to shop around for older (bang around gear) like a grocery store car and study reviews. I was poking
    around some old Nikon DSLRs, and stumbled upon a Nikon D3000. (A real beater) Interestingly enough the information offered really
    floored me and it stated the unit contained what is referred to as: ADR= Adaptive Dynamic Range. Okay, fasten your seat belts friends,
    here it comes, which will cause a two to three second delay in the image fully appearing on the back screen. Canon I believe has EDR,
    Extended or Expanded Adaptive Range which I suspect may be causing this issue with my gear. Again, the key word here is "suspect."
    So please do not shoot me, I am only the messenger. I had a Canon EOS Rebel t5 and never had any type of problem with it. "Only issue
    I had with it was a very clunky sounding shutter, but otherwise a real fine release from Canon. I do hope this is some way helps as I have
    no intention of confusing the issue. Also, because of mobility issues since the first of this year, I have not had a good opportunity to get out
    and do some good work. Hopefully this will change within the next week or sooner. I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms. :((

    Thanks again,

    Tony :))
     
  10. Alfred Pennyworth

    Alfred Pennyworth New Member

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    I think it was a Lag while Image Processing: There can be a slight delay in processing the image before it is fully displayed with all its colors and brightness. Sometimes, a slow or faulty memory card can cause delays in processing the image and displaying it. Keep your camera updated to avoid such issues.
     

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