Newbie Help Buying First Camera... SL3 or M50?

Discussion in 'Beginner Questions' started by Bubbapuck, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. Bubbapuck

    Bubbapuck New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Equipment:
    None at this time... looking to purchase
    Hello All!

    I have always wanted to take on photography as a hobby but have never been able to afford it. My kids are grown and grandbabies are here so I thought now would be a great time to splurge a little and start a hobby I have always dreamed about. I am not a rich man but have given myself around a $1000 (give or take) to find a good starter camera. If I love the hobby like I think I will, I can grow in the future but for now this is a good starting point.

    The main reason I am starting this hobby now is in the next 2 years I will be crusing to Alaska and Mexico, going to Hawaii and Disney World. I want to have a nice camera to capture these events as well as grandkids sporting events (13 yo, 10 yo, and 6 yo). I plan to use my camera equally for photographs and for video.

    I have been researching via youtube and online courses so I know some of the basics and have a VERY general undertsanding of the terminology. At this time I am planning on either the SL3 or the M50 (leaning towards SL3 for cost reasons... want to keep them low if possible). I want to list the positive and negatives, as this newbie understands, so I know how important the pros and cons are for my situation so I can make a well educated choice.

    • SL3 is a DSLR and M50 is mirrorless. I understand the differences as far as what they are and size wise but does one take better pictures than the other?
    • M50 records HD at 24 FPS while SL3 does not (NTSC). This seems to be a point of controversy. They say 24 FPS is for cinematic video. I plan to do basic youtube and family videos. Is this that big an issue in my situtaion.
    • I heard that SL3 records 25 FPS in PAL. The difference between 24 and 25 doesnt seem that big a deal to a newb. If I switch to PAL, is there a difference in quality or anything why I wouldnt just switch if wanting the 25 FPS? I live in California if that matters.
    • SL3 seems to have a better array of lenses that are more affordable. The M50 you have to add an adapter to get all SL3 lenses or use the more expensive EF-M lenses. If I use the adapter, does the picture quality suffer at all with this adapter. Cost wise is like the SL3 but if the adapter doesnt make a difference, the M50 may be more manageable.
    • SL3 seems to have a much better battery. Again, for cost and sanity purposes, I like the fact that the battery life is better.
    • M50 seems to have better image stabilization (in-body). This seems like an important difference but not sure how big of a difference. With the SL3 lens syabilization, will that be good enough for my generic use. I dont like when I get hand shake in my videos but not sure how big a difference between the two really is.
    • The burst shooting on the M50 is twice as good. For my Alaska and grands soccer shots, I may want a better burst. Is this something that is an important thing or will 5 FPS be suffice?
    • SL3 has eye detection while M50 does not. I am not sure if eye detection in general is that much
    • better. I plan to get better and learn more but I dont think eye focus should sway my decision.
    • SL3 hot shoe is missing a pin meaning you have to use Canon only flash. This can cause more cost to the SL3. The SL3 has a built in flash. Is this a good enough flash or will I need to get a better flash and this is something I need to worry about when it comes to cost. I alsi have to think that 3rd party companies will eventually develop for this hot shoe.
    • Neither are weather resistant. I am fearful with going to so many different environments over the next few year I may have an issue and my camera be ruined. How easy is it to have a weather related issue with the cameras? Should I put some sort of cover over the camera if I get the rain of Alasake or the sand of the Hawaian beaches?
    • I like these two cameras because of their capabilities and the cost. For $1000 I cam get the camera in a bindle to provide more lenses and gear. Would it be better to go up to a better camera and have fewer lenses/gear or for my purposes, stick with the lower level cameras?
    I apolgize for this being so long but I am hoping to get myself better educated before the Black Friday sales come!

    Thanks... Bubba
     

  2. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Messages:
    2,166
    Location:
    South Island, NZ
    Equipment:
    A little Canon stuff
    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    Just to throw an idea out there for you. What does the RP go for in your neck of the woods? It is a full frame rebel. If you like the hobby, you may find that this system is a little more future proof.

    Gary
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  3. Craig Sherriff

    Craig Sherriff Well-Known Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    3,171
    Location:
    Tasmania, Australia
    Equipment:
    60D, 10D, 50D 1dmark3, T70, AV1, lenses ranging from 28mm to 600 mm, canonet Junior, Canonet QL 25, Mamiya C3 and 3 lens sets,Mamiya 645 pro TL and 3 lenses. Pentax MG and various lenses, Toyoview 4 * 5 inch large format camera,Calimat C1 8*10 inch ultra large format camera.
    Welcome to the forum, Bubba, that is a long list you have there, my I suggest you go to a camera store that you wish to purchase from and ask the try the camera out, most good stores will let you do this. This will let you get a feel for the camera.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  4. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,774
    Equipment:
    Canon M50
    Canon 18-45mm m, Canon 18-150mm m, Canon 55-200mm m, Canon 22mm m, Canon 28mm m macro,
    Sigma 100-400c ef, Sigma 18-35mm art ef,
    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    if you do diecide to go for the M50 (which is what i have) try to get the bundle with the 55-200mm lens included, i got the one that has both the 15-45 and the 55-200, that 55-200 is a fantastic lens for a kit lens, nice and sharp.

    i don't do video on my M50 but my gf uses it to do basic youtube stuff, yeah grrr lol.
    i use ef lenses as well as M mount lenses the M50 handles them with ease, auto focus works on the ef lenses even with x2 converters (and i load it up with crazy setups too)
    the battery i have four genuine ones, i never need more than two (for photography)

    the burst mode on M50 for me is great, i shoot alot of wildlife, but i choose to shoot jpeg, the reason for this is raw files are like 4 times as big as jpeg and i dont have the storage capacity or the computer to deal with that much data, on top of that the buffer and sd cards don't get as choked up when doing high speed shooting, if i was to do paid work then i would also need to get the software to handle raw, so on this point you might want to check out the buffer capabilities of the M50 running fast raw files, (i have no exp of other cameras).

    the M50 does not have in body stabilization, it uses the stabilization through lenses that have it, and no they did not add it to the M50 II.
    the lack of ibis hasn't been that much of an issue for me.

    yep the lack of weather sealing on the M50 is a bummer for me as i love being out in the rain, the is the insanely expensive 'outex' system that i would like to get but thats a xmas/b'day wish list.

    the af tracking in the M50 is pretty good, though its obviously not as good as the current eye af in the R5 but then it wouldn't be an entry level camera if it was :)

    The reason i chose the M50 was the crop sensor offered me a good magnification for wildlife and the M50 has the built in EVF, this is a godsend to me, i'm 50 and my eyesight is getting worse, with the evf i can do magnify 5x or 10x in the veiwfinder so i can really get in close to see what is in focus, i hardly ever use the flip screen though my gf uses it for vid.
    also having the ability to have the histogram in live view on the evf is fantastic too .

    i've only been doing photography since start of this year when i turned 50, i got the M50 as my birthday present (i chose it) so i don't have a vast knowledge of other cameras but i have been very happy with the M50, though it would have been nice to have it weather sealed i think i would have still wanted to get the outex for any camera i would be taking out in the rain/shooting around water.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  5. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,120
    Location:
    Fargo, ND
    Equipment:
    5dMk4, 5dsR, 5dMk2, 20D, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 17-40mm 4.0L, TS-E 24mm 3.5L II, Rokinon 14mm 2.8; Pixma Pro-100
    Welcome to the forum Bubba, you have a lot of questions there and no easy answer as some of that is all personal choice.
    I would shy away from the "which one takes better photos" idea, all cameras can take great photos. Its a matter of working with the tools you have. You can take a stunning photo with a holga and a crappy one with a Hasselblad.

    Both are great cameras at a hobbyist level. The SL3 is going to lack features of the higher end DSLRs but will take the same gear the more expensive bodies take. The m system is interesting as it will probably be phased out with the R system introduced. There are limited m specific lenses. The R system you are an early adopter. So the question is do you want a more compact mirror-less body? Or a bulkier DSLR with more compatibility?

    You will find the pop up flash is ok in some situation but vastly under powered compared to say ex430, so you may end up buying a flash anyway down the road.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  6. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,774
    Equipment:
    Canon M50
    Canon 18-45mm m, Canon 18-150mm m, Canon 55-200mm m, Canon 22mm m, Canon 28mm m macro,
    Sigma 100-400c ef, Sigma 18-35mm art ef,
    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    as the M line is crop and the R full size why would the M line be replaced by the R line, are they not two seperate lines able to exist together?
    the M / crop being a cheaper side to the full frame, though the M line does have the x1.6 advantage
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  7. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,120
    Location:
    Fargo, ND
    Equipment:
    5dMk4, 5dsR, 5dMk2, 20D, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 17-40mm 4.0L, TS-E 24mm 3.5L II, Rokinon 14mm 2.8; Pixma Pro-100
    The EOS M line has been around since 2012, they have 8 lenses and only introduced one lens since 2016 and that was back in 2018. They appear to have shifted all focus to the full frame mirror-less to be more competitive in the space. Canon is an underdog here compared to Sony and Fuji.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  8. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,774
    Equipment:
    Canon M50
    Canon 18-45mm m, Canon 18-150mm m, Canon 55-200mm m, Canon 22mm m, Canon 28mm m macro,
    Sigma 100-400c ef, Sigma 18-35mm art ef,
    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    yes, but if the M line is to be an entry level to bring in new photographers it doesn't need a huge lens line up, the people that are happy to stay with the compact system either adapt ef or other brands like sigma or they upgrade to the full frame canon system.
    yes i agree canon needs to concentration on their main R line but it doesn't need to abandon its line that introduces people to its brand, like me for instance, without the M line i couldn't afford to enter the canon mirror less system.
    i suppose that is one advantage of the M50 being such a loved camera by vloggers, there is more chance it staying in the fold from them than the photographers.

    btw johnsey did you read my pm about the december thing?
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  9. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Messages:
    2,166
    Location:
    South Island, NZ
    Equipment:
    A little Canon stuff

    I know that it is only a rumor. But there is one floating around that there is a aps-c R7 less than a year away.

    A 7D replacement? Who knows. Could be true, and it could be a load of.......

    A reasonable new rumor as well.

    Gary
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  10. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,120
    Location:
    Fargo, ND
    Equipment:
    5dMk4, 5dsR, 5dMk2, 20D, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 17-40mm 4.0L, TS-E 24mm 3.5L II, Rokinon 14mm 2.8; Pixma Pro-100
    I just don't see them or even third part brands putting much effort in on the M mount was my general point.
    I did, and was mulling around the idea, I have concerns, I'll reply to the message.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  11. Bubbapuck

    Bubbapuck New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Equipment:
    None at this time... looking to purchase
    Thank you all for your input. This is a struggle. I have a $1000 budget. I was hoping to get the SL3 and a couple of lenses. I started to take everyone’s advice for all over the bet and want to put my thoughts down to get more advice.

    I took everyone’s advice and have looked at the RP and the 90D. Here is what I see. I compared the specs of the three. As a newbie, I am not familiar with the camera world. I can only go by the specs. I have learned how to read the specs so let me put my thoughts down to make sure I understand everything. I am only listing the differences between the RP, 90D, and SL3.

    RP $1000 with a kit lens.
    Mirrorless full frame.
    2nd best resolution
    No built in flash so I need to spend more $
    Different lens set? More money?
    Poor battery, more money for extra.

    90D $1350 with a kit lens
    Sturdier build then the other two
    Best resolution
    Shutter speed x 2 of other two.
    11 FPS as opposed to 5fps

    So as I look the spec comparison, it is hard for me to go over my already tight budget for cameras that, spec wise, seem fairly close. Both the RP and the 90D are 50% over my budget without lenses.

    As a newb camera guy, am I taking a too simplistic approach when I look at the specs only. Is it worth going 50% over my budget and getting no extra lenses for a year or two?
    Thanks again for all your support.
     
  12. GDN

    GDN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Messages:
    2,166
    Location:
    South Island, NZ
    Equipment:
    A little Canon stuff

    When I brought my RP, Canon NZ were doing a special offer at the time. One of those over the Christmas break. The camera was a couple of hundred dollars cheaper then the normal selling price. It also came with a second battery as part of the deal.

    What I am finding using this camera is that I use mainly one lens. Yes, I own three EF lenses, but 9 times out of 10, I have the same one lens mounted on the camera. If I were starting out from nothing again, I would by a half decent body that would suit my needs. But I would still buy the best lenses that I can, when I can afford to buy them. Start with what you think that you need, one body, one lens. And over time buy the gear that will suit your style as you learn and grow.

    Gary
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  13. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,774
    Equipment:
    Canon M50
    Canon 18-45mm m, Canon 18-150mm m, Canon 55-200mm m, Canon 22mm m, Canon 28mm m macro,
    Sigma 100-400c ef, Sigma 18-35mm art ef,
    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    Three things, you mention, a budget of around $1000, travel and you are a newbie to digital photography,
    those would push me to think the M50 might be a good option,

    it has the option of keeping itself small with the native M lenses, this was one of the thing i like alot, i can take it out with two M lenses in a small handbag, the best camera is the one you have with you, if i had a bigger camera and lens only i'd probably be less willing to take it out on general walk arounds, and as a beginner that is a good thing to do, learn one or two aspects and nail them then learn the more indepth stuff, harder to do if the camera is on the shelf as it was all too heavy for that day out.
    as i mentioned try to get the M50 bundle with the 15-45 and the 55-200 this will keep you happy and it will allow you to see what direction to go in on you style and allow you to see which angle lens size you like the most if ou want a prime lens in the future.

    EF adaption, i went bigger with my M50, i got a sigma 100-400mm and ef adapter for doing wildlife.
    Second hand EF lenses will mean a better budget and you can carry them forward and use them on M mount,
    you won't be able to carry the M mount lenses forward, but if you sell the M50 when you upgrade or keep it this is a mute point.

    going close/smaller at first you probably not going to look at getting a macro lens as thats quite a bit more money for a decent dedicated one but extension tubes esp the M mount ones by Dorr for the 55-200 will get you in closer for cheap.

    if you do decide to up grade later on to an RP or even an R5 you already have a good understanding of the canon menus and system, the M50 is holding its value in the second hand market very well, a little too well to be honest i was looking for a second one for my gf.

    or you may even want to keep the M50 by that point and get another camera

    other things you might need for a camera cost too, SD card/s extra battery/s a carry bag (another big rabbit hole!), you shouldn't need a strap with the M50 and kit lens, the neck ones provided are handy for lens changes keeping both hands free while you do a quick swap (learn to do that so your sensor front is exposed for less time.)
    i got a black rapid strap for the bigger lens, that takes the weight out of your shoulder if you are carrying a lens around and shooting.
    i bought to ladies hand bags and sew them together for a multi compartment bag which i use the most.

    i have 4 batteries (original canon ones) for the M50 but i only use two on a general walk about if that. (i only do photography, not video)

    when you get into the lighting side of things you will want to start looking at speed lights and a trigger to do off camera flash, you can get these at a cheap price later on, most pop up flashes are pretty much party snappers.

    a full frame camera will give you better low light but i have found the M50 to be ok but then i havent used a FF camera to compare.

    out of intreast are there any aspects of the M50 that have ruled it out for your needs.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  14. Caladina

    Caladina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Messages:
    1,774
    Equipment:
    Canon M50
    Canon 18-45mm m, Canon 18-150mm m, Canon 55-200mm m, Canon 22mm m, Canon 28mm m macro,
    Sigma 100-400c ef, Sigma 18-35mm art ef,
    7artisans 7.5mm m, Laowa 100mm macro ef, laowa 9mm zeroD m, Vintage M42 Lenses:
    Ashi Super - Takumar 1.8 / 55mm,
    other benifit of the M50, if you want to take out an ef big lens, say a 100-400mm you can pop a small m mount wide angle in your bag too, if you dont want to carry alot of heavy extra glass, and visa versa, if i take out a couple of wide primes i can pop the m mount 55-200 in the bag incase i see some interesting bird.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  15. Bubbapuck

    Bubbapuck New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Equipment:
    None at this time... looking to purchase
    I literally have narrowed this down to 4 cameras. The 90D, RP, SL3, and M50. They all have great strengths and weaknesses. I will probably toss and turn in this until the black friday sales come out. I like the idea of the M50 but the fact that it seems to be going away in favor of the R system concerns me. That and it only has 23 native lenses that are more expensive. The fact that the M50 Mark ii seems to be only a firmware upgrade and not any changes to the body concerns me even more.

    Never thought this would be such a difficult decision. I am such a tight wad that the fact I am even considering ths suprises me. :)
     
  16. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,120
    Location:
    Fargo, ND
    Equipment:
    5dMk4, 5dsR, 5dMk2, 20D, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 17-40mm 4.0L, TS-E 24mm 3.5L II, Rokinon 14mm 2.8; Pixma Pro-100
    I think you may find that some nice little kits will probably pop up around the holiday season on sale so I would let the decision simmer and see if there are any good deals that come your way the next two months. I think one big takeaway from the suggestions is despite where you decide to invest, bodies and technology change, but planning for the future with additional lenses down the road may help. Buying an expensive lens in a particular mount may limit your options if you shift gears later. You can always start with an inexpensive kit including lenses and upgrade later.

    Conversely, this is where years ago I knew i wanted to go full frame dslr someday, so I purposely only bought EF lenses and thus never bought a single ef-s for my 20D. There's no wrong answer you just need to have an idea if you want to commit to something short/medium/or long term and decided how much you want to spend doing so. Your budget is not huge so your not really going to have much to loose.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    Bubbapuck likes this.
  17. Bubbapuck

    Bubbapuck New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Equipment:
    None at this time... looking to purchase
    Thanks for the advice Johnsey. I am usually a rush and regret pruchaser but I am forcing myself to be patient. Right now they have the RP on sale with a kit lens for $999. I have been tempted but I am being patient. My plan has been to wait until Black Friday. I have heard i may find some good deals. I really want the 90D so I am hoping to see a deal on that. I may be willing to go up in budget a tad if they have a deal on it.

    I noticed you mentioned holiday deals. Will there be better deals aftet black friday (or should I say could there be historically). I really want to get my hands on one but I may wait past black friday if, hitorically, better deals are to be had at Christmas time.
     
  18. johnsey

    johnsey Site Moderator Staff Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,120
    Location:
    Fargo, ND
    Equipment:
    5dMk4, 5dsR, 5dMk2, 20D, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 17-40mm 4.0L, TS-E 24mm 3.5L II, Rokinon 14mm 2.8; Pixma Pro-100
    By holiday i mean the sale season - now through year end. Black Friday is probably the best bet.
     
    Bubbapuck likes this.

Share This Page